lostpig's final day manifesto

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by lostpig, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. Candentia

    Candentia Well-Known Member

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    I know that 精 refers to potentially a lot of different things, but I've only ever heard and seen 霊 and specifically 精霊 used in the sense of either spirits as in ghosts or at least, some figure that isn't meant to be bound to the mortal world like humans and other animals.
     
  2. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Here's an interesting tidbit about how Chinese works (by extension I believe Japanese kanji would be similar).
    Sometimes individual characters have their intended meaning when used alone or in certain context; however, when two characters are combined to form a "composite" word, they may take on a completely new or different meaning. To learn Chinese, one can't just learn the meaning of individual characters one by one. One would need to learn the "composite" words.

    In this specific case (again, I'm speaking of the meaning in chinese), 霊 can mean soul, spirit, and ghost like you said, even in chinese. Though when one says 精霊 in chinese, there's no doubt it commonly means Fairy if it's used as noun (The same word can actually be used as an adjective in chinese, but I'm not going there).
     
  3. Candentia

    Candentia Well-Known Member

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    Does 妖精 mean anything as a composite word in Chinese? Because every time I have heard someone refer to fairies or elves in Japanese, it's always that word instead.

    There are several Japanese composite words which don't necessarily make sense if you try to read the characters separately, (大丈夫 being one of the most obvious) but most of them aim to be pretty literal (and redundant, for that matter.) As far as my perspective goes, it would actually be easier to interpret 精 alone as "fairy" than it would 精霊 since a lot of the composite words seem to be for the purpose of eliminating ambiguity.
     
  4. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Yup, you are correct that some composites are pretty literal or redundant and sometimes it's there to remove ambiguity, since an individual character could have multiple different meanings. In a way, a chinese character is more analogous to an alphabet with meanings. The composite words are more of the actual words. Of course, single characters can be used as words when appropriate. However, composite words are much of common and preferred in the proper language.

    精霊 is the word for fairy. While you could interpret 精 alone as fairy, it's ambiguous. One wouldn't normally use it alone to refer to fairy, but instead forming a composite with it. This particular character is also seldomly used by itself as a word. It's mostly used in different composite words with wildly different meanings.

    妖精 is a valid word in chinese that could mean fairy or evil spirit or something along that line. It usually has a negative connotation because 妖 is associated with evil. So in chinese we usually don't use 妖精 to refer to fairy (unless they are evil). I don't know if the Japanese 妖 has the same negativity or not. It's possible it doesn't because, like you, I saw them use this 妖精 for normal good fairies too.

    Just to give an example, we call a evil fox spirit (like a fox spirit morphing into the form of female to seduce human man to take their life force) 狐妖 or 狐狸精. Of course, the latter we also use it figuratively to refer to woman who tries to seduce and steal other people's husbands.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
  5. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    It's stuff like this that prevents me from learning Asian languages, far too much stuff to remember, and it doesn't help that I'm quite lazy.
    The whole thing about flavor hing was talking about was why I liked Scelet compared to Scarlet as a name. It's more original and creative than a name given to who knows how many characters and is somewhat uncreative.
     
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  6. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    My Chinese is super rudimentary (it was awkward when I met this 2.5-year-old girl in a family reunion because she had better Chinese than me :oops: ) but I wanted to (unnecessarily) add that yeah, this is totally the case.

    The example I always remember: 知道 (zhīdào), which is a common way to say "to know" (+ some conjugations).
    知: "to know"
    道: "street/road" <- when I found out about that, I was like "wtf" because it seemingly came out of nowhere and I didn't already know the definition of 道 xD


    My issue with "Scelet" is that the spelling when compared against the katakana just doesn't make sense considering that English now has standarized spelling conventions (with exceptions for our mountains of loanwords). I'll be totally fine if his name is "Skelet". And according to what someone else posted in this thread (I think), it doesn't even line up with the conventions in another language where "skelet"/"scelet" (forgot which one) is also a word.

    Also "Scelet" is obsolete and its related spelling "Skelet" is not

    Edited because I was in my wikicode mindsets even though I haven't touched wiki recently
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2016
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  7. Candentia

    Candentia Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty sure Japan is fairly willing to use 妖 with negative connotations, considering it is used in words like 妖魔, 妖女(never actually heard this used via audio before though, 悪女 is far more popular) and of course, 妖怪, which are almost always portrayed as being fairly nasty beings. In JPCC's dialogue though, forest sprites are referred to as 森妖精 and perhaps it may be a case of the word simply evolving to become more neutral over time from popular use.

    Also, in Japanese, 妖 is almost never used as a noun(including composite words), and the only case I can remember where it is is just a synonym for 妖怪 anyway.

    At least Japanese doesn't make you remember all sorts of arbitrary pronunciation rules(if they can even be consistent enough to be rules) like English does. @_@

    I still sound like a fob sometimes and sometimes even need English subtitles to actually hear what is being said (in English) properly. Don't even get started on English used in songs.

    That said, you have to consider that for Japan, basically everything in a Western language they don't hear all the time probably sounds super exotic and original and stuff.
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2016
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  8. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    I'm a native English speaker and can speak 0 other languages fluently

    The only movies and songs that I can understand without subtitles are those for kids

    It wasn't until I started learning Spanish and also saw how my sister was struggling to learn how to pronounce English words that I realized how damn tricky English is LOL
     
  9. Toto

    Toto Well-Known Member

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    if you add 道 with 德 =道德 , it means moral

    ps :just passing by
     
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  10. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    It's stuff like this that leads to things like Bahamut being a dragon in Final Fantasy. "It's exotic so let's use it for a dragon, and ignore it's actually a name for a huge ass fish that supported the world in Arabian mythology."
     
  11. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    I wholeheartedly agree about the English pronunciation thing. It's so arbitrary at times. There's no way to know which syllable is the stress. Even the same vowel could have different sound in different words. People would have 0 idea on what you are talking if you got either wrong.

    When I learned Spanish in high school, I could actually read out loud a paragraph without knowing what the heck it meant at all, just because there are rules on how pronunciation works in Spanish.
     
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  12. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    Meanwhile my classmates are not only being inconsistent about how they pronounce Spanish words but are also having trouble with pronouncing new words and we're all in our fifth year of Spanish and I'm just sitting here going "how"

    "geografía" is not pronounced "jeeh-ah-GRAAH-feeh-ah"; it's pronounced "heh-oh-grah-FEEH-ah"

    orz

    maybe they're still not used to looking at Spanish as Spanish instead of looking at it as something-related-to-English... that's my best guess........ Spanish pronunciation is incredibly straightforward compared to English............................ I have no idea how my classmates are messing up Spanish pronunciation regularly after over four years of the same high school classes that I've been taking (read: since we've been taking the same classes and I don't have this problem, the source of the problem most likely does not lie in the teachers or the curriculum--and no, I don't do shit for out-of-school Spanish practice even though I really should lol)....................................................
     
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  13. Candentia

    Candentia Well-Known Member

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    Where I live right now, karaoke (カラオケ) has somehow become something like kerryy-ohkee (ケリーオウキーイー) from people trying to read it as if it was an English word.
     
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  14. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    I think one needs to tune out of their English mind when pronouncing Spanish (and other romance languages for that matter).

    When I pronounce words with foreign origin (i.e. non native english words), I always follow the Spanish vowels sound. That would usually be correct or close to what it's supposed to be.
     
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  15. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    I just realized we hijacked this thread to talk about translations, when it was about lostpig's final day or something.
    Heck where is he? This is his thread after all. Did KZ hunt him down and turn him into bacon or something?
     
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  16. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    Similarly for "karate", am I right :p

    The first time I saw the word "karaoke", I thought it was pronounced "care-a-oak" LOL I think hyperforeignism is at play with the "eeh" sounds tacked on to the end xD
     
  17. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    I didn't read either link carefully, but I was thinking about this because I didn't understand it at first. Now I think I do, but to confirm:

    Are the differences in pitched syllables similar to how Chinese has several different tones? (Mandarin has 4 or 4.5, depending on your view: flat, up, curved, down, and the 0.5 is a neutral thingy)
     
  18. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    So I was watching some stuff on youtube, and come across 3 different translation for the same music video. So I thought I post the links and we could hold a contest between the 3 based on how accurate and "flavorful" the translations are.
    The music video is from Kamen Rider OOO if you were wondering.




    EDIT: Okay I thought I was only posting the links, but apparently I posted the actual videos by mistake. I going to have to learn how and what those buttons you see when writing your post do.
     
  19. dreadrabbit

    dreadrabbit Well-Known Member

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    It's fine, I didn't expect anyone to :rofl: I just wanted to put them there just in case someone did randomly come by the post and wanted to check I wasn't talking out my rear end :rofl: <3 Or if someone had time and was interested.

    I don't know either variant of Chinese so that one I probably can't answer you correctly. My guess is that it's similar, since changing tone can completely change the meaning of a word in Chinese. I would imagine the comparison is a lot closer than Japanese pitched syllables and English stressed ones.
     
  20. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    To be more accurate, you don't change the meaning of a word by changing the tone in Chinese. Instead, you would be saying a different word if you change the tone, resulting in a different meaning.
     
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