lostpig's final day manifesto

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by lostpig, Feb 29, 2016.

  1. dreadrabbit

    dreadrabbit Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, @Hing ! :eek: /
     
  2. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Now that I'm back home. I will provide an example. :p

    Since Cantonese is my mother tongue, I will go with Cantonese pronunciation here.
    In Chinese, usually multiple chinese characters share the same sound (I'm not sure what's a better word, but what I mean here is the same consonants+vowels combination) but different tones. And it's not uncommon to have characters sharing even the same tone. There are also occasions where the the same character may be spoken in different tones (or even completely different sound, but that's rare).

    The following characters are example with the same consonsant+vowel sound but different tones in Cantonese:
    詩(poem), 史(history), 試(to try), 時(hour/time), 市(market), 是(yes/to be)
    They all share the same "si" sound but different tones. If I add 歷 to the second and fourth characters above to form composite words, I will have 歷史, which means history, and 歷時, which means (something) elapses/lasts (a certain amount of time). When you say the second character in different tone, it means completely different things. Though in this particular example, since one is noun and the other is verb, it's probably easy to tell when spoken in context even if you don't say it right. Though a native speaker may notice.
     
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  3. dreadrabbit

    dreadrabbit Well-Known Member

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    Holy cow! :eek: Thank you for that explanation! Cantonese looks...quite complex ;rofl: <3 At least from a non-native perspective. But all the more interesting in that regard.
     
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  4. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Actually, Mandarin is similar in that different characters may share the same sound but different tones. Though Mandarin has less number of tones than Cantonese. Mandarin is an easier spoken dialect to learn than Cantonese, not only because it has less tones, but also because it has quite close to 1 to 1 match to proper written Chinese. The same can't be said of Cantonese.
     
  5. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    四是四 (4 is 4)
    十是十 (10 is 10)
    十四是十四 (14 is 14)
    四十是四十 (40 is 40)

    sì shì sì
    shí shì shí
    shí sì shì shí sì
    sì shí shì sì shí

    Not a great example (out of the three words, only two illustrate the thing about how different tones = different words), but one of my favorites anyway because tongue-twisters ftw xD
     
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  6. Martin541

    Martin541 Active Member

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    I remember learning this. But I thought there was another line that went 十四不是四十. I still suck at tones though:oops:
     
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  7. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    Haha, maybe I learned an incomplete version? Happens all the time worldwide :p
     
  8. lostpig

    lostpig Well-Known Member

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    There is a much more brain-twisting and well-known example (about eating stone lions), and I just found out about a 600-word example that just took it to a whole new level. :eek:
     
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  9. lostpig

    lostpig Well-Known Member

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    Only when you pair Mandarin with traditional Chinese. And that means Taiwan. Still, the same can't be said of Cantonese.
     
  10. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    Hey, you're not dead!!:) Was wondering where you were over 7 pages of discussions of translations.
     
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  11. lostpig

    lostpig Well-Known Member

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    I was not dead (thankfully!), but very sick. I have someone who seems interested in developing an emulator and are looking pcaps people would make to get an afterlife, so I'm facilitating that first.

    But those 7 pages of discussions seems to have us all riling on how K/Z think they know how to translate best, rather than why I originally ranted on them about. With Kell's archive, can someone pull a random no-stat card and run some checksums on them? Shooting them down for being hypocrites is much more fun than trying to bring them down for seemingly "non-sensical" translations.

    (Yes, Kagamine Rin can melt away in the core!)
     
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  12. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    It totally is, and I would totally do that... if I understood what the heck I'm reading from the pages I pulled up when I searched to figure out what your request means LOL
     
  13. Jpwong

    Jpwong Well-Known Member

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    Ooo, awesome, right now I can only access the scenarios properly right now since the character pages keep trying to download the sprite data for whatever reason and leaves the little "connecting..." thing in the top corner.

    Basically take a datamined imaged, run a checksum on the file and then do the same with the equivalent image off the wiki and see if the values come out the same.
    Might be a little more difficult now that they've gone and replaced all the images with the Japanese ones... But just for reference, I checked Ronda's image. They just grabbed the image that's on GUMI's official wiki and used that, it's not the datamined image (which is way better compressed).
     
  14. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about traditional Chinese as opposed to simplified Chinese? I'm not sure what you mean when you say pair with traditional Chinese. As far as I'm concerned, there's only 1 proper written Chinese regardless of whether you use traditional or simplified. They differ in how you write certain characters, but not how you construct a sentence.
     
  15. lostpig

    lostpig Well-Known Member

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    Then we can't say they themselves used datamined images. Pics taken off another wiki are not datamined.
    And replacing all Global images with JP images? THIS is one of the reason why the GCC wiki is useless to me now.
     
  16. lostpig

    lostpig Well-Known Member

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    Ohhhhh traditional vs. simplified deals with how characters are written out. You must be talking about written vernacular Chinese (白話文).:eek:
     
  17. Hing

    Hing Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, vernacular Chinese is what all Chinese use today (as the modern standard written Chinese) and that's what I have in mind. But I'm just confused what you mean when you mentioned traditional Chinese and Taiwan. Is it not true to mainland mandarin?
     
  18. Jpwong

    Jpwong Well-Known Member

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    I tend to agree there, a lot of us GCC refugees know most of the character names based off GCC naming conventions. The pictures themselves are less of a problem than renaming everything to something new which just makes it harder to search the arcana list for the ones I want to find. Even if "Werner" is a more accurate translation than Velnar, who do they seriously expect to Ctrl+F for Werner on the magicians page when they want to look that one up? If the person already knows Japanese, they're probably going to use a Japanese wiki, so the translated name is worthless to them, and anyone who's looking at the wiki in English is probably a GCC player and has no idea what Werner is because they've never seen that name on the card before. It is almost just as convenient for me to hit up the JP zh wikia and look for the picture of the arcana I want info on (since their wiki is at least sort of ordered based on when the arcana was put into the game) and let google translate the page for me so I can find Kizuna information than it is to use the english wiki now.

    I think it would seriously have worked better to leave all the names the way GUMI had them and just add a note that the "real" translated name is such and such and just use the new nomenclature on units that GCC never got around to officially releasing. I appreciate that they're adding the kizuna info to all the existing pages at a fairly high speed, but all this renaming seems like a big make work project that's completely unnecessary when you consider just what target audience is using it.
     
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  19. RedRobBlaze

    RedRobBlaze Member

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    I'm honestly not too bothered by the translations, since I know why they did it. In general, I'm more likely to freak out about something if I don't know the reason for it. A perfect example is two separate times I lost a pencil. The first is when I got home and tried to find it to do homework. I couldn't find it and was wondering what happened to it, when I remembered I drop it in class, and decided to leave it there and pick it up after class was over, but I forgot and left it there. Since I knew why it was gone, I was calm. In comparison, I lost another pencil a different time, and didn't know where it disappeared to, so I freaked out a bit.
    Though I don't play JPCC, so that might factor in to it, and as much as I like Scellet as a name, I will concede they misnamed Scarlet
     
  20. nickjr

    nickjr Well-Known Member

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    Victory is mine! muahaha /ego
    Skelet (link)
    ... or not
    what remains of Scelet (link)

    the archivist in me is sooooo bothered

    There is still no redirect of any kind for Velnar (link) even though I dropped a message about it on Werner's page over a week ago. Lephret (link), however, redirects to Reflette (Original).

    Similarly, Velnar's English image (link) is now gone from GCC wikia (and I did get the file name right; you can see that this file name was used on several GCC event pages, and if you go to those pages, Velnar's image will not load and will only have the dimensions and the file name where the image ought to be).

    Lephret's English image (link), however, is still present in the GCC wikia. But you have to go to File History to get it.

    Seems like we're only gonna have those GCC event pages and some redirects and some images in file histories and information on GCC exclusives as relics of GCC on the "chain-chronicle-global" wikia...

    (This is the thing I said I would do on page 1 of this thread. But I totally forgot about it until now lol)
     

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